men in childcare - my experience

[Glennyman]

I dont believe that men are welcome by their female counterparts in any childcare setting. Despite being told that we are, I see very little evidence of it. I have qualifications and finished top of my class. I have university qualifications and years of experience working with children. I have a Cert IV in Childrens Services but I am amazed that when I apply for work I either get ignored or I get told that I have to have a Cert III. This is correct but my qualification is better than a Cert III because it is more specialised and more units/work. I am absolutely amazed that the "professionals" of this industry dont know that (or dont care) and are using it as an excuse to deny me work. I am good at what I do and the only reason why I am finding myself on the dole now is because of discrimination. I am like any of you, I have a family to support and children to feed. Denying someones ability to support their family is an absolutely cruel and stupid thing to do, especially when they have done the hard work to be where they are.

[Lorina]

From what I understand a Cert IV in Children's Services only qualifies you to work with children in an OOSH setting (before and after school care). Even though it may sound like a higher qualification than a Cert III the modules are different and with a Cert IV you focus on school age children where as in Cert III you focus on children between the ages of 0-5 years. If you are applying for a job at a long day care centre then you will need to complete your Cert III first, however you can apply for a job at an OOSH centre with your Cert IV. It's like this, if you have a Bachelor of Education (Primary) it doesn't entitle you to work with children in early childhood that's why you need to do a bridging course so you can also be qualified to work in early childhood as well.

,
L.A

[Glennyman]

No, that is wrong. My trainer said this and I have it in writing. A Cert IV IS a more comprehensive qualification and is the equivilent of Cert III. It is more units

[fchaudari76]

Unfortunately this is an issue.
I would get something in writing stating that your Cert IV is worth more than a Cert III as it is not common to come across someone with a Cert IV rather than III.
I wrote an interesting paper for Uni regarding this issue perhaps you would like to read it? ... I have attached it
One of my uni lecturers (after reading the attached paper) gave me the website of her friend to read
http://www.drgarryjones.com/contact-us

Just because you have a degree it does not necessarily mean you can work with children, depends what your degree is. Sadly males are not openly welcomed in childcare....it is a sad fact, but there are centres with males in them you just need to persevere and find a place that will welcome you

[Glennyman]

Thank you for your reply. What you have answered confirms what I have said about being welcome. Is it because I have a penis and all men are potential rapists? It seems to me that if women want the men of the world to change, they have a lot to change themselves if they believe that because of my anatomy I am not acceptable to look after children or that I am a safety risk. I have been through the same checks that you girls have gone through and I have been allowed to work with children. Also my qualification isnt less than a cert III. It was more work, how could it be less?. I have an Adv Dip and I work in High schools with children who exhibit challenging behaviours also.

[fchaudari76]

What work are you looking for exactly?
I notice you are in Qld, whereabouts are you.

And yes you are right ... we have a lot to change in the system and it is highly female orientated and dominated and the entire workplace is not very male-friendly, but changes can be made and I do hope that if I ever get a Directors position to have males in my centre, I think it is a good thing and adds a dimension to it that cannot come from an all female staff.

You say you have worked in High Schools, perhaps until you can find a decent early childhood centre continue to work in a primary or senior setting, at least that way you have job and are earning money

[LindyT]

Fefe that was a really interesting paper. Thank you for sharing it.

[Lorina]

No, that is wrong. My trainer said this and I have it in writing. A Cert IV IS a more comprehensive qualification and is the equivilent of Cert III. It is more units

As I said wasn't too sure about the cert 4 children's services qualification so I contacted about 5 different institutes that are offering the cert 4 children's services courses both in NSW and QLD and they all mentioned that a cert 4 only specializes in before and after school care. Even though the unit has 4 extra modules compared to a cert 3 it primarily focuses on children between the ages of 6 - 12 years that's why when working in a long day care they prefer it, if you have a minimum cert 3 qualification.

I wasnt convinced since its different from what you are saying so I then contacted ACECQA (gov website) myself to get the right answer. Here is what they emailed.

Thank you for contacting ACECQA.

As your qualification is on the ACECQA list of approved certificate III qualifications for working with children preschool age and under, you are approved nationally to work in long day care.

It does not matter when you achieved this qualification.

So, under the new National Regulations of approved qualifications you are able to work in a LDC with a cert 4 in children's services. This has come into effect from the 1 January 2012.

Now that we got that cleared, when you applied for a job and you were told that you need a cert III to work there, then maybe that centre may not be aware of this new regulation that now allows Cert IV to work in LDC too. When you told them that you have a Cert IV which qualifies you to work in LDC, what is their response to this? How many centres have you tried and received similar responses? I still find hard to understand why they would not employ you just because you are a male. Also just because you haven't been offered a job I don't think it is because you're a male, it probably has to do with something else too.

I know it sucks that you haven't got a job yet and it can very frustrating but sometimes it just take time to find a job that suits you. You can't always expect to get a job straight away. Hope things work out for you and let us know how it all goes.


,
L.A

[catchmeifucan]

Is it because I have a penis and all men are potential rapists?

Are you serious? I think you are being a bit too hard on yourself as well as everyone working in this industry. I really dont think that this is a major issue or anything. The fact of the matter is, there arent many males working in this industry and thats because there are only a very few number of males actually applying for a job in childcare - period! When you compare the number of male and female applicants who apply for a job in childcare, you will find that over 90% of them would be female. If only a very few male apply for childcare, then how can we whine carrying on saying that women are dominating when the number of male workers applying for these jobs are comparatively a lot lower? Out of that low number of male workers applying, we cant expect all males to be hired straight away. And I just dont believe that just because a male is not hired, that doesnt mean its because he is a "male". Do you know how many women applying for a job are not hired neither? They dont go around stating that they are not chosen because they have a * (you know what). There has been many debates over this and it will keep going on and on. Newspaper needs something to write about and people wants to make a big deal of every thing. It really sucks when you have not been offered a job. But if no centre is offering a job, then it might be more than just being a male. Maybe they are looking for something else and its not fair to jump into conclusions saying that its a woman dominating industry and no males are welcome. That statement is wrong and I stand against it. Like I said, the only reason its women dominating is because most of them who wants to work in childcare are women. Its not a women's fault. Thats how it is. I myself have seen a few males working in some centre. If males are not hired, then how did these male workers working in childcare? If a woman wants to be a truck driver and she is not picked, she cant turn around and start saying its because they are racist and would not pick a woman for a truck driver. Wouldnt it be wrong to stereotype a whole industry just because of bad experience with a few places? Isn't this the same thing here?

[Lorina]

Here is another topic posted by one of our male users who is currently working in childcare. Thought it may be an interesting read:

Males in childcare

,
L.A

[Macoola]

HelloGlennyman

I just wanted to say you may very well be being discriminated against no one can really properly judge. But I wanted to also state that what catchmeifucan said is very valid. I am a femal and I am qualified and it took me forever just to get an interview let alone a job, and if they didn't want to offer me an interview they never had the decency to call or email saying yes we have recieved your resume. So at times I didn't even know if they had recieved it. I did stick at it for months though and do have a job now but it took time. If you read other forums on this site you will see others who are having or have had difficulty finding a job, it just seems to be very competative these days. So keep trying somthing will come up.

Macoola

[ozchez]

Hi Glennyman

I have been in childcare in many forms (LDC, nanny, before and after school care and relief work) and for many years. I remember several years ago when I was living in SA that I did relief work at one centre, the room I was allocated to had three educators - all of them male. It was the best experience to be a part of. The children reacted to them no differently than if they were female educators.

I dont believe that you being a male is stopping you from obtaining work. Good luck with the hunt and hopefully something comes through for you.

ozchez

[Dragonstorm]

I know its old, glennyman. common mate. keep it clean. you may have had a bad experience or two but keep going. I've only worked in one centre and now am back on paternity leave. I still haven't finished my studies, because im a bit slack( much to my wife's dismay), but I see the light at the end of the tunnel. the regs have changed, just go with a positive attitude and become the carer you want to be.
I sincerely hope you've found somewhere that wants you. sometimes you just have to keep looking.

[Dale-John2014]

Hi Jeremy


I am also a male who is 21 years old, I also have Asperges and autism and am currently completing certificate three in children's services through TAFE Western anyhow I agree with everyone on here that MORE men need to step up to the role of childcare worker as the children need a male to look up to and I have been asked a few months back because there's no males that I know of in Western NSW to go up to places as far as Warren that's how rare male childcare workers are sadly but I'm not an octopus I can't be everywhere lol, Anyhow i am still to complete mine I'm hoping by the end of next year I finally have the units I need to finish plus resubmits done and dusted it's a very challenging field I think that's what puts most men off but those of us like myself and you that are sticking to the end deserve a medal. Anyhow I'm the ONLY known male in TAFE Western to be doing the course which is via Video Conferrencing sadly.



Regards


Dale


Ps: I know I have rambled a bit but juyst letting you and anyone else know of me =)

[Lorina]

Hi Dale,

Seems like you are popular with centres since you have to travel quite a fair bit. That's great! I think that many reasons why men don't work in this industry because they think it's primarily a woman's role to look after a child (very stereotypical but unfortunately I believe that's how the male community may think). Some males don't feel comfortable changing a nappy, dealing with a crying baby, playing with a child (except obviously their own) and it's not worth getting involved in this industry. Those males (you and Jeremy) who do take a risk and get into the industry find it very rewarding an a great opportunity to base your career on. I agree, having males work in childcare does break down stereotypes and does shift the balance of female staff in a very positive way! It's really great to hear that you're enjoying yourself!

,
L.A

[SumitaSofat]

Thanks for the sharing us.

[JNP]

Hi everyone, I love the new site. Well done Lorina... I would just like to add that if the pay was better, more men might be attracted to childcare. I know it is stereotypical but most men are still the major breadwinners and how can a man support a family on the wages of a Child Care Worker??
Jules.

[Lorina]

Hi Jules!

Nice to see you on the new site! Thanks so much for your comments!! Appreciate it!

You got a valid point. If a male was solely working for his family in childcare it would be difficult to support his family especially as a cert 3 or even diploma qualified worker. A male would rather go to uni and get a degree to work as an ECT or director. The pay received as a director or an ECT would be better to support a family...

It's hard you know in childcare. It's biased and stereotypical to say men shouldn't work in childcare but then from a family point of view for some it is uncomfortable and unethical especially for the younger children to have a male working. Even though these isn't anything wrong with it!

,
Lorina

[Glennyman]

Sorry, you have completely lost me with this line,

"It's biased and stereotypical to say men shouldn't work in childcare but then from a family point of view for some it is uncomfortable and unethical especially for the younger children to have a male working"

Why is it considered "uncomfortable and unethical" to have a male working in childcare???? we are fathers too, is our being fathers and looking after our own children uncomfortable and unethical also? why especially for younger children?

[Glennyman]

Please can you remove the "newbie" label also, I am not new to anything guys and have been working with children since the 80`s off and on