Qualified From Overseas: How Long To Become A Teacher

[juliana]

Hi L.A. how r u ? I want to ask you that I have done my diploma and bachelor from India. in Australia I have done cer111 and currently doing diploma. I want to ask you that how many years I need to complete my teaching education. can anyone give me any suggestion? please thankssssssssssssss bye

[fchaudari76]

What is your Diploma & Bachelor's degree in?

As I mentioned in another thread, most possibly your study done in India probably will not be up to par of an Australian degree unless it was done somewhere affiliated with a Uni in Aus/UK/USA

Also if your study in India was not in Early Childhood or Education then it cannot really be used to RPL you any units off for University study

If you do a Bachelor of Teaching (0-5yrs) then it will be 3 yrs
If you do a Bachelor of Education then it will be 4 years

However once you have your Diploma of CS you will get 1 yr off your Uni study of you are doing a Bach. of Education

Hope this help

I am from Pakistan and I understand the problems of degrees holding no value when you move overseas.

I am a Director here and I see SOOOOO many resumes from Indian applicants who have degrees but because they do not stand up to anything once they come here they have to start from scratch and do a degree all over again

[Lorina]

Hi Juliana.

I think it's quite surprising that your diploma and bachelor (for teaching I'm presuming) doesn't get recognized In Oz. In India the schooling system is way more advanced than in Oz. I mean in India children start school at 3 years old where they attend a preschool setting. So, what 5 year olds go to in Oz, Indian children attend when they are 3. Year 1 starts at 6 years old and in Oz, Kndy starts at only 6. The amount of learning they teach the kids here in India is incredible! There is just so much a little kid knows because the method of teaching is like this in India. My point is to obtain a diploma or a degree here in India I think will be much harder than obtaining one in Oz. The only difference is in Oz of the regulations and policies etc but the overall teaching method and what you learn in regards to teaching children etc will be more difficult in India. So, if it's more advanced than realistically it should be accepted in Oz right?

In my opinion I think the Aussie government should come up with a bridging course for people from overseas who have completed a diploma or a degree in teaching. It can be a 6 month course which goes through the regulations, policies, curriculum etc so you are aware of what is necessary to teach. You can find everything online itself. Even the Australian Curriculum. It basically tells you what exactly you need to teach for each year level and it's not that difficult.
Obviously the Aussie government would rather gain more revenue and make you do everything all over again in which case you have to pay more fees etc for the courses to become qualified... I just think its really unfair that's all... That's not equal rights is it?

Like FeFe mentioned 0-5 years is 3 years and 0-12 years is 4 years...

,
L.A

[fchaudari76]

LA unfortunately I think in some countries eg I know in Pakistan there are a lot of shortcuts / underhand methods to obtaining qualifications. I assume because there is no way to guarantee you haven't done that they will not say a degree from countries where such carry on is prevalent is equal to one gained here.

Just because school is started earlier is no indication of the quality of instruction or course material

I know I lived in Pakistan 13 yrs and though my middle & high school education was brilliant it was because we were a Grammar school and did the UK O&A level system. University however was pathetic with students just rote learning, people passing because of connections etc.
More and more universities are linking to UK & Aus unis in order to make sure that what students are learning is on par with countries like Australia.

Also countries like India have so many universities a lot if which are just pumping out students & have no credibility really & even outside of where they r locates practically unknown. Same in Pakistan. There are a handful of good Uni's that provide quality education of international standard however there are 100s of universities around !!!

[Lorina]

LA unfortunately I think in some countries eg I know in Pakistan there are a lot of shortcuts / underhand methods to obtaining qualifications. I assume because there is no way to guarantee you haven't done that they will not say a degree from countries where such carry on is prevalent is equal to one gained here.

I don’t think it’s fair to assume that people doing degrees from India, etc are all doing qualifications and degrees by using shortcut methods. There may be a very very small minority that may get a qualification this way and its not as easy as you think, at least in India I can say.

Recognized Education institutions are pretty strict here now-a-days and you need to be a pretty big shot with very high connections and with a lot of money to do something like that. Not many teachers or uni’s would want to jeopardise their career/business by doing dodgy things like this. Hypothetically, even if someone is so rich that they can buy their degree like this, then why would they want to go through all that effort so they can work in childcare in the end?

A vast majority of people obtaining these qualifications do so with hard work and study. I have seen the syllabus here, they are so hard and far more advanced than what we learn in Aus. Especially the theoretical parts are very hard. At least until the undergraduate course from what I have researched so far. That’s why a lot of Indians and Chinese find it easier to complete even master degrees when they have successfully completed the undergraduate degree there. So I just feel that it is unfair to not consider people who have done their degree from overseas just because they might have faked it. Even if a person has a fake qualification, well you should be able to easily spot them out during the interview itself. They should have trouble explaining what they studied and their knowledge skills will not match their transcript or the degree qualification. Even if it didn't, you should easily be able to understand during a trial run of that specific position by seeing if their work is reflecting their experience claimed in their resume or degree qualification. You will be able to notice if someone has no clue in what they are doing or even not answering simple questions properly etc. and they presumably said they are qualified.

Another thing to also consider is that when someone does migrate to a country like Australia or come there on a working visa, the Australian immigration itself does a lot of search and there are criteria they need to meet before their visa is granted. So its not so easy to fool the immigration with a fake degree especially now when they are even more stricter than they were 10 years ago.

Just because school is started earlier is no indication of the quality of instruction or course material

That’s not right. The syllabus in India is a clear indication for that and the course materials they provide supports the syllabus they need to keep up with. It’s a worldwide known fact that the syllabus they teach in schools and unis in countries like India and China are a lot more in depth and so much more advanced. They also start teaching children from a very young age and that’s why a lot of students here do perform exceeding well. As an example, I am attaching the CBSE syllabus for LKG (meaning Lower Kindergarten) that starts at the age of 3. When you have a look at this, you can tell how advanced in it here for a kindergarten level for 3 yr olds itself!

Lkg_syllabus.pdf

Also countries like India have so many universities a lot if which are just pumping out students & have no credibility really & even outside of where they r locates practically unknown. Same in Pakistan. There are a handful of good Uni's that provide quality education of international standard however there are 100s of universities around !!!

Thats why the ACECQA has developed a list of approved overseas qualifications for the purpose of working in an Early Childhood setting. It lists the name of the qualification, the university and the country. I guess that if someone from overseas has gained a qualification listed on here then they are able to work in an EC setting.

[attachment=0]overseas_qualifications_ec_aus.pdf[/attachment]
Anyways, this is my opinion just thought I'd share my views with you,

,
L.A

[fchaudari76]

I do not doubt that some of the most qualified and knowledgeable and hard working people come from countries like India and Pakistan etc, however there must be some reason that qualifications do not match up.
I have in the past month had about 9 resumes from persons of Indian background all with degrees come in as they are doing child care studies now so I am not sure what the go is but that is unfortunately how it is.
I think they make it harder here as well, my mother had a Masters degree in Science and went to the UK and taught A level Bio with no issues so maybe this is an Aussie issue! wouldn't be surprised they seem to have a trend of loving paperwork and making things 10000 times harder to do than the rest of the world.

Anyway

[juliana]

My diploma and degree in teaching. I was teacher in India for 1 year. I completed my studies in 28 years age. Then I got married and came in Australia. I am feeling so sad that there is no value of my studies in here. Thanks fefe you tried to gave me so much help. At the moment I am running family day care and doing diploma in children's services. I think it's so hard to become a teacher in Australia with second language. Teaching in Australia is my dream now. It's so hard to start study again, go to uni and Look after kids. I will see what will happen in the future. Thanks L.A

[fchaudari76]

I would get your qualifications assessed as they may be able to give u additional credits towards a bachelor of education here

[Lorina]

Juliana,

You are working very hard just to have a life in Australia... At times I understand it may be very stressful for you! You are passionate about working with children and you are doing what is necessary for you and your family. It's difficult sometimes I'm sure! I'm sure your husband and your children are very proud to see you work so hard for what you believe in!!

I still think you should get your qualification assessed... You may or my not gain credit but it's good to be sure.

To get your qualification assessed, check out the links (provided by FeFe) available in the following topic:

Qualified Teacher From Overseas - Working As A Trainee

,
L.A

[dulciean]

I am finding this thread fascinating . LA may I please point out that in Australia our model of education is based on a far different set of early childhood development philosophies to India and other parts of Asia. Child rearing ideas, the rights of the child, and an onus on Emotional Development take precedence here. The level of academic achievement you refer to reflects a culture of training young children to learn by rote and in a pressurised environment.
I for one am glad that foreign degrees are not easily accepted in Australia- there is a huge cultural chasm between the countries/ continents. The experts / researchers in Australia are focused on developing the individual child- not on a blanket approach of purely mathematics, science, languages, technology etc. In each instance, the Educational system works to prepare the child for life in the wider society they will eventually form part of. In Australia - we are about freedom, expression, liberty, diversity and building a strong sense of self. It fits with our culture here, a culture which is unique, beautiful and not found anywhere else on the Earth!

[dulciean]

And may I add that I am quite shocked and affronted at your vehemence against the Australian education system . It's really astounding- and smacks of a cultured ignorance. VERY DISAPPOINTED!
LA. the approach here is much much different and ,I feel ,more supportive of who we are culturally here in Australia. We are not preparing our children to compete with hugely overpopulated and struggling societies- we are not about slotting every body into the workforce. We are about INDIVIDUALISM- embracing the unique diversity each child possesses. Not every one is meant for academia- and I would argue even a monkey can be taught clever tricks like writing!

[fchaudari76]

On a syllabus lots can look impressive and yep I guess a 3 year old pressurised to do so well from such a young age is great in a way but it kind of goes against everything we do in EC here + in countries like India where there are millions of people they have to do well to get those jobs and thus learning starts young.
I studied at a Grammar school in Pakistan, we were one of the top 5 schools worldwide and we learnt according to the British system of education ie understanding NOT learning piles of books off by heart. My cousins kids went to good schools but did the local system of education, nothing wrong with that they all have done well in life but their learning was "tell me what page and I can spew the page back at you"
When I went to Medical Uni I didnt last as it was taught how the local system was taught, all they wanted was you to just learn page after page off by heart with little understanding. I hated it and dropped out after struggling with it for 3 years.

In Pakistan children are pressured to do well as it is there way out. For a lot of families they rely on children earning decent money as a lot live in joint family systems. Parents are looked after by their children in their old age, failure and not having a profession is not an option.

I came from a (comparatively) well off family yet when I wanted to do art it was not an option as art was what stupid non intelligent people ended up doing !!! Mind you I am talking about early 90s where you became a doctor, dentist, lawyer, engineer, teacher ... not much else was acceptable. So I pushed through with subjects I did not like doing because culturally that is what life was in Pakistan. One of my friends got into Business school but her mum found her a good rich boy to marry so at 18 she was married, has never gone back to study and is now the mother of 3 grown up children!
I do not agree with the kind of pressure & learning environment in some of those countries, my own included. I was lucky my basic schooling was done through a foreign based curriculum but to this day I resent my parents for pushing me towards things I did not want to do because it would have been too different for me to study art!

Oh well thats my opinion on things but there must be some identified issue which is why not all degrees & quals are accepted here. Plus when I see a CV of someone who is not even 30 and has 3 degrees all in different fields it does not inspire much confidence in me to how good those degrees were if you can just pump them out and esp when they are 3 non related fields!

I said what I said from what I know and have been through and personally it is no reflection on the hard work people from foreign cultures will put in to a job but if Australia just accepts any and all qualifications willy nilly then that is a bit silly as there has to be a standard

[Lorina]

Wow Dulcien... You make it sound as if I am some sort of an Anti-Australian who is against the Australian Education system.... After reading your response, I had to re-read my post to see what I said that offends Australian Education system!

Dulcien I’m an Aussie... I was born and brought up in the Northern Beaches of Sydney. I did my schooling (Kindy to Year 12) on the Northern Beaches, worked and studied in all parts of Sydney etc... I’m definitely not Anti-Australian by any means...

I really think you misinterpret my point! The whole reason for my previous post is to say how you just can’t ignore an overseas qualification or teachers from other countries when those countries have more advanced syllabus and start teaching from a young age itself when compared to oz.

I’ve recently spent the past 5 years of my life going back and forth between Oz and India, spending a considerable amount of time here in India becoming aware, researching and understanding the schooling system. Having both experience in early education in Australia and also here in India there is a vast difference between both... yet I don’t see a point for teaching qualifications to be re-done if the country you have previously studied from has a more complex education and teaching syllabus. Whether it is India, America, Brazil, Philippines, Canada, etc... This is not me being Anti – Australian this is me giving you my opinion and my views on this matter...

And may I add that I am quite shocked and affronted at your vehemence against the Australian education system . It's really astounding- and smacks of a cultured ignorance. VERY DISAPPOINTED!

Ouch... Very harsh! I’m sorry if you don’t agree with me but I’m here to share my thoughts and this is what it is...

may I please point out that in Australia our model of education is based on a far different set of early childhood development philosophies to India and other parts of Asia.

Yes I know that. At the same time, I also think that the education in Australia can be improved a lot more too. For instance, in Preschool an Early Childhood Teacher (who is usually employed for this position) should be given an opportunity to teach (English, Mathematics etc. at the preschool level of course) because that’s what an ECT learns in their degree. Don’t you think that it’s a waste for an ECT to be employed as a preschool teacher when instead of giving importance to teaching; more importance is given for completing paperwork? That is ridiculous! Then why do they need to employ an ECT if a diploma trained can do the same?

Child rearing ideas, the rights of the child, and an onus on Emotional Development take precedence here. The level of academic achievement you refer to reflects a culture of training young children to learn by rote and in a pressurised environment.

It is great to encourage child initiated ideas. At the same time, we can’t expect to wait for child rearing ideas all the time. I think that even for preschool, there needs to be a set curriculum on what to teach and what milestones to target in young children so we can work on improving these skills and areas of development and to get children ready for Kindergarten.

Also have you ever seen a child (preschooler) who completes an activity work book, can write their name, write the letters of the alphabet, recognize numbers etc? They feel so proud of themselves that they are doing big school work! I don’t see the harm of implementing a syllabus for Preschool children!

The syllabus can still have the cultural values and the Australian curriculum such as the EYLF embedded into it. This system might work better than a system aimed more towards documenting everything and having a spot-on paperwork! Before the EYLF the paperwork was not as much as we have to do now. .. That’s why we are creating ways to complete documentation that is simpler and easier to do because the requirements for documentation are so much more!

I for one am glad that foreign degrees are not easily accepted in Australia- there is a huge cultural chasm between the countries/ continents.

I think it’s unfair that if someone did a teaching degree overseas, then it is not accepted in Australia. I understand that in Australia it focuses on the Australian Curriculum but still if someone did do a teaching degree somewhere else, there should be some sort of recognition for it.

I do feel that for those people who have completed a teaching degree overseas, like I mentioned in my first post, there should be some sort of a bridging course so they only need to complete those units to qualify to teach in Australia. I think it’s a bit much asking them to do a complete Australian Degree, it’s not cheap you know especially for overseas people, it’s almost double than what a citizen has to pay and there is no Fee-help.

The experts / researchers in Australia are focused on developing the individual child- not on a blanket approach of purely mathematics, science, languages, technology etc.

The countries that teach Math, Science, Language etc. doesn’t mean that it is solely focused on these core subjects. They still develop the child as an individual, provide awareness about cultural diversity and prepare the child in wider society, etc.. The syllabus in these countries incorporates it differently that’s all... Also when you are preparing a child for life in the wider society they will become a part of, it doesn’t mean you can ignore teaching other academic subjects.

My point here is, children should be talk taught various subjects so it improves their overall learning and development. Maybe not at the age of 3 but I think at 6 years of age to start school, to teach Alphabet, Numbers, etc is a bit late. I feel something as basic as the alphabets, numbers, etc. must be taught at preschool itself. So, when a child starts school at 6, they can start learning to read, improve their vocabulary etc. as they have already been taught the basics at preschool. By the way children only learn what you teach!

We are not preparing our children to compete with hugely overpopulated and struggling societies- we are not about slotting every body into the workforce. We are about INDIVIDUALISM- embracing the unique diversity each child possesses. Not every one is meant for academia- and I would argue even a monkey can be taught clever tricks like writing!

Good Luck teaching a monkey to write...lol...

Educating children with various academic subjects doesn’t mean you are building a workforce and trying to compete with hugely overpopulated and struggling societies. So, what you are saying that countries like Australia which isn’t overpopulated should throw academics out the door?

Also it’s not that teaching Maths, Science, Technology etc. only helps to compete in overpopulated and struggling society. That is stereotyping... It’s more to do with the Development of a child, Cognitive Skills, Memory Skills, Language Skills, Math Abilities, Vocabulary, Reading Skills, encourage Thinking skills, Creativity etc.

On a syllabus lots can look impressive and yep I guess a 3 year old pressurised to do so well from such a young age is great in a way but it kind of goes against everything we do in EC here + in countries like India where there are millions of people they have to do well to get those jobs and thus learning starts young.

The education system in India is based on the British System. School starts at a young age in England too.

"Education in England is overseen by the Department for Education and the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Local authorities (LAs) take responsibility for implementing policy for public education and state schools at a local level.

The education system is divided into early years (ages 3–4), primary education (ages 4–11), secondary education (ages 11–18) and tertiary education (ages 18+).

Full-time education is compulsory for all children aged between 5 and 17 (from 2013, and up to 18 from 2015), either at school or otherwise, with a child beginning primary education during the school year he or she turns 5."

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_England

You mentioned pressurising children...When it comes to pressurising children, it’s not the education to blame, rather it’s the parents who expect their child to do a lot more so it’s unfair to blame the education system for this.

Plus when I see a CV of someone who is not even 30 and has 3 degrees all in different fields it does not inspire much confidence in me to how good those degrees were if you can just pump them out and esp when they are 3 non related fields!

I laughed when I read that! It’s not very hard to have 3 degrees by 30. My hubby completed 2 degrees by age of 22 and they both are not related. He did Bachelor in Astrophysics and Software Engineering from Sydney Uni. He was able to complete it young because he started Uni when he was 17. He finished HSC at 17 yrs old. He also did well on both degrees and it shows that it’s not impossible to do different degrees when you’re young. I’d say it’s ambitious!! I also don’t think it’s fair to say that the quality of education might not be good just because he did a couple of degrees at a young age and which are non-related. Do you know how hard it is to get into Sydney Uni!

Finishing off I just want to end by saying there is nothing like a perfect education. There are many aspects of the education system in various countries that can be improved upon. For instance, I might like to see encouragement of more creative thinking, problem solving on their own, more practical hands on experiences, incorporating games and activities in learning in countries like India.

At the same time, I would also like to see more intentional learning for early childhood education in Australia, mainly getting preschoolers prepared for school by teaching them the necessities of at least writing their name, recognizing numbers, letters etc. not just 10 minutes during group time.

Just because I don’t completely agree that the Australian education is the best in the world doesn’t mean that I am Anti-Australian, non-Australian or as Dulcien calls it "cultured ignorance"! I am saying this purely because of my practical experience and research I am doing in understanding the education system in both Australia and other countries word wide.

I always give more importance to Education than anything else. Education and learning is such a beautiful thing that when it’s taught to children, it supports them so much with their development and learning. We should not restrict what we can and can’t teach to kids. Kids Learn What We Teach!

Anyways this conversation has gone waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy off topic...lol... It’s good to get a debate happening isn’t it! However let’s not get too serious and start accusing one another! This is a forum, where we can voice our opinions and thoughts freely! Isn’t that the Australian way?

Cheers ,
L.A

[fchaudari76]

LA - I was talking about 3 degrees from some Uni in their country.
If they got them here then yep I def would not criticize in fact good on them then because yes Uni here is not easy.
Anyway each to their own.
I just doubt every person in India has access to the British system of education ... I am not sure what schooling you refer to when you say 3 year olds start school in England because I grew up in the UK and most certainly did not begin school until age 5 when I went to Kindergarten

Unfortunately the fact still remains that if u have studied overseas and want to work here u have to meet a standard and a LOT of degrees out there are not up to par surely you must see that.
Yes if someone has done a Bachelor of Education from Uni of Punjab or some good Uni ok fine but I am talking about people getting degrees from non descript little Universities ... and when those CVs land on my desk yes I do look up the University as I do not assume however living in the subcontinent for most of my life I know that the number of Universities providing a high quality education comparative to overseas quals are honestly just a handful, however there are so many Universities out there, yes most probably providing a very decent education but most likely not quite up to the standard of a Uni in Oz or UK

Anyway like you said everyone has a right to their opinion.

[dulciean]

LA- I'm going to have to agree to disagree with you on this one. My passion for Australia runs several generations deep- and I am wont to get into hot water over sharing too many of my views on this country's ridiculous immigration policies.
My last thought- given the far more complex and academically superior education system in India- why are there not droves of Aussies clamourimg to study at these prestigious institutions? Why the influx of (?) superior graduates flocking from India and Asia to Australian shores? And why the lack of insight of first generation Australians for the free and liberal way of life here?
Ps the questions are rhetorical lol.

[Lorina]

My passion for Australia runs several generations deep- and I am wont to get into hot water over sharing too many of my views on this country's ridiculous immigration policies.

It is one thing to feel passionate and pride and it’s another thing to be biased. I am proud to say I am Australian and I'll always be. At the same time, I truly believe in equal rights and that doesn’t mean I don’t respect Australia!

Regarding the immigration policies, Australia makes billions of dollars through the Education Industry as well as from Tourism and both of these provides significant economic growth for Australia. If you want the immigration policy to be even more strict, then its fine (although I do feel it’s pretty strict already and also fair even though they can improve in an area or two) but it will take a big hit on Australian Economy. I am just going to leave it at that... But you have to read this so you can understand on how important international education in Australia is: http://www.go8.edu.au/university-staff/ ... -australia

given the far more complex and academically superior education system in India- why are there not droves of Aussies clamouring to study at these prestigious institutions?

How many Australian students end up going to Uni after completing their schooling? Most of them prefer to go to Tafe or start an apprenticeship or traineeship for trade studies and only some of them go to Uni. The percentage of students who go to Uni on completion of school are a lot less than the students going to Tafe and colleges. Therefore the students who do wish to continue on to Uni have plenty of good Uni’s to choose from Oz. As long as they have the proper grades in HSC to support it. So where is the need to go overseas to study when there are plenty of options here itself?

Why the influx of (?) superior graduates flocking from India and Asia to Australian shores?

That’s easy... Either to do a course that may not be offered in their countries (or) for better job opportunities and this is mainly due to the huge competition in these Asian countries.

Anyhow, I am going to leave it at that since you said these questions are rhetorical. I don’t see the need to get into it. We could go on and on and on about this but I think we’ve all said what we have to say... Let’s move on!

LA - I was talking about 3 degrees from some Uni in their country. If they got them here then yep I def would not criticize in fact good on them then because yes Uni here is not easy.

I knew you were going to say that. The point I was trying to make that it is not impossible to do multiple non-related degrees at a young age. If hubby was able to do 2 by 22 yrs completing 3 degrees by 30 would not have been impossible and that’s what I was trying to show as an example. Forget that my hubby did his in Sydney. Let’s say, if he had done the same degrees in India or other Asian Countries with the same effort in studying and graduated with a dual degree or more, from what you are saying, he might have most likely faked it or his standard of studies might not have been up to the mark if he hasn’t studies at a top ranked Uni or the internationally recognized ones. That is my point. It is unfair to jump to conclusions like that and it’s not fair for students who had worked very hard for it.

I just doubt every person in India has access to the British system of education ...

You misunderstood what I was saying. When I said Indian education is based on British system, I meant that the education here are British influenced and it doesn’t mean that the curriculum in India is the same as the ones taught in England. It’s the same in Sri Lanka as well as in Pakistan I think, isn’t it? It means that the type of education provided now such as the primary school, secondary school, Higher Secondary School, etc based on English curriculum were established during the British ruling in India. That’s a whole lot of history I don’t want to get into. If you are interested, here is the link with the History of education in India: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... bcontinent

I am not sure what schooling you refer to when you say 3 year olds start school in England because I grew up in the UK and most certainly did not begin school until age 5 when I went to Kindergarten

In my previous post from Wiki it says: "The education system is divided into early years (ages 3–4), primary education (ages 4–11), secondary education (ages 11–18) and tertiary education (ages 18+). Full-time education is compulsory for all children aged between 5 and 17 (from 2013, and up to 18 from 2015), either at school or otherwise, with a child beginning primary education during the school year he or she turns 5”

So basically in England, 3-4 yr old goes to nursery school (or like preschool) which is not mandatory and then school usually starts at 5 yrs which is compulsory. It still starts earlier when compared to Australia and that’s why I mentioned it.

In India, usually 3 yrs olds go to LKG (maybe like preschool equivalent you can say), 4 yr old goes to UKG (like Kindy although both LKG and UKG are considered as Kindergarten). These 2 stages are classified as Pre-Primary.

Year 1 of School starts at 5 yrs old and it’s a Primary School. Its 10 years of Primary and Secondary Education. After that its 2 years of Higher Secondary education. So based on this, I would say England schooling starts a year ahead of Australia since in England Primary school starts at 5 years and India starts a year ahead of England since the Kindy is completed in pre-primary stage itself.

however there are so many Universities out there, yes most probably providing a very decent education but most likely not quite up to the standard of a Uni in Oz or UK

Again, we cannot generalize like that. Also it is difficult to compare to the standards in Oz or UK since the education method and syllabus between these countries are completely different. Yes I agree there are some who may not be providing a decent education but just because of that, we cannot discard all Uni’s or colleges except for the top ones listed as the best in the world.

For example, you yourself said that doing Uni in oz is not easy. Don’t you think these students would say the same about their Uni in their countries? They also worked very hard for their studies, spent their important part of their life in studying and graduated, dealing with the pressure from the society, trying to live up to the expectation of their parents and then we turn around and discard all that effort saying that their education might not be up to the standards!

I do feel sorry for them and that’s why I think at least some of their efforts have to be recognized, that’s all. This is what I am trying to say that there should be a better system here to weigh these students rather than assuming and ignoring them saying that education might not be up to the standard.

There are a few things that can be done to recognize an international education: (1) Have an aptitude test. Even if these students have outstanding transcripts, an aptitude test will give a better understanding on that students qualification based on their performance in these tests. If they have done well in these tests, then it is safe to assume that their qualification should be upto the standard. That is also fair since you can filter the best from the worst. (2) Have an English proficiency tests (3) If required, a bridging course with examination. These measures will also help us to determine a person's ability in a particular skill or field of knowledge. This will also be fair for everyone.

Also one more I would like to add... Look at the students doing their Cert 3, Diploma or a Degree here in Australia itself. Although the Uni’s are very good and the Education system is excellent for gaining these qualifications, how many students really put in their genuine effort in this learning process? There are some who do it right and I appreciate them for their effort but have a look at the forum and you can see yourself. You have noticed yourself how some students want to be spoon-fed and trying to get answers without any effort at all. For these students, they only want to get a pass and that’s it! They don’t really care about the studies. They only do it so they can get a better job with a better pay. However, these student's qualifications will still be recognized although they might have learnt nothing. The quality of education is good here for Uni’s but when students use shortcut methods here too, they get away with it when they get a pass and still learning nothing. That’s where I think the difference lays...

Anyhow, I feel strongly about my views and it can be a never ending debate. So I am just going to sign off on this topic for now. I am now trying to complete the Online Tools to get them ready for the next release and I need to spend most of my available time on that. I will send you (FeFe) and Lindy a PM probably this weekend once we are ready to test these out. There are a few things we need your help with the testing and I will message you on that later.

Cheers ,
L.A

[dulciean]

I agree LA- subject closed - it's been interesting !

[fchaudari76]

I am not saying those people do not work hard for their degrees, most do but unfortunately the fact is most do end up with probably very valid quals but just miss the mark here.
Yes I am all for testing people before writing their degrees off. But when I interview someone who has a degree in English and then they can hardly understand simple English or speak it leaves me doubting a lot.
I agree & feel our TAFE needs to up its game as there are a lot of people who get a TAFE qual with no effort.

Anyway like u said this is a never ending debate and we all have our views and takes on it. But the system is what it is and you just do what you have to.

[rsvnyn]

Quite interesting topic on the discussion. I am an Indian here in Australia, I came here in 2010, I have my Masters and Master of Philosophy in Physics from India. I have done whole of my education with English as my first language. I was a Physics teacher for middle and senior school students for 1 year, then I had to move after marriage because my husband had to come here for his career. Now, after coming here, I couldn't get into teaching because I don't have the basic degree in teaching that is all otherwise my degree would surely be recognized here in Australia. Due to my family situation, I switched to childcare studies, rather than entering into registration process of the teaching board. Now I have completed my certificate 3 and doing my Diploma, I was working in a center as a relief staff but again I had to shift from SA to Victoria. So now again I am into job hunt. Even though, it was a desperate situation to take a decision of changing my career, it is a fact that I love working with children, I found childcare industry interesting once I got into it. In fact it is quite interesting to study all the regulations. I find it very easy to finish all my assessments, even my trainer was amazed with all my work. So, it is not that overseas qualifications are not recognized or worthless. In fact, as said by Lorina, formal education starts earlier in India rather than in Australia. In fact, I love the approach of the Australian system, it is much more practical. Even in India there are schools where they teach practically rather than depending on books. In fact, the school in which I was studying had much practical approach. It is the fact that there different systems of education in India. I agree that children are more pressurized in lower age. But, it is the way that has emerged now. When I was in my early years, that is in 1980s, the system was very flexible, like not this much pressure like in the current curriculum. We started formal education but was only limited to one language or alphabets and numbers but now it is a lot more like imparting 2 languages at the same time.
Many of them DO illegally obtain degree, but that actually is not the case always. Not everyone gets degree illegally. There are many prestigious institutions as many of you would be aware, higher education in India is much of value. So, there is nothing to do with the quality of degree.
In fact, my basic passion is teaching, never mind if it is for primary or higher level children. I will surely get into teaching career in the following years. Only thing is I have to give English test, do a teaching degree. I also found different options for this like bachelors, masters or graduate diploma in teaching or education. So, Juliana, as you have a teaching degree already from India, there are options to get into teaching career, try to contact the relevant teacher registration board of your territory and they will surely guide you through. I think you have to have show the English proficiency. In that too, you have many options, like IELTS( 8 in all) or ISLPR(4 in all). So if you feel IELTS tough, many of my friends have cleared the ISLPR with good score and got registration through teachers registration board and have now successfully started their teaching career.

Hope some of my points would help!!
All the best

[Lorina]

Hi Vid,

Thank you for sharing your experience with us! Its always good for us to hear from people who went through the process, so thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Just out of curiosity, with your qualifications and your degrees you could teach at a high school in Australia as a physics teacher, why didn't you rather than having to study all over again to work in childcare. I completely understand if early childhood teaching is your passion!

,
L.A