staff/child ratio dont get it

[hotpies2006]

hi i am a gl leader working in the pre-kindy room of ages 2 1/2 to 3 year olds i work by myself with 8 most day and 9 others dont understand nor agree with the new staff ratio, i been told yes i can have 8 children on my own and also 9 or more because the new ratio being now as being under the same roof yes confusing that i can work over 8 children, i find this very hard and stressfull as do my fellow work mates who have to fill in for me during my programming my kids are so hign maitence and no body wants to work in my room or fill in for me when i am away lol dont blame them because with 8 or more boys its full on and i find by the time i get morning tea done toileting, nappy changes there is not much more time for activities because now i have to conbine with kindy at lunch/reat time and be in there room by 11.am so i dont really acheive a productive program, nor to i have time for any paper work/cleaning or anything so now my weekends ,nights are all about catching up, i even go in work on weekends to clean my room, sooo tied and stressed out i wish i was in a position to leave but i am not any advice would be appreciated and can some-one explain to me is this right staff/child ratio

[smith76]

I would be questioning having more than 8 and i wouldn't put up with that. If you don't get anywhere with your director i would call the department because that is not safe practice for you and for the children.

[Danielle]

I couldn't blame you for feeling under stressed for you or anyone else being put in that situation.
One person cannot keep track of that many kids. You would need to have eyes in the back of your head
just so you could be able to watch them as kids need to be watched constantly. In my opinion it is unfair and I really do think you need two more people or at least one to assist you.

[Lorina]

Hi Hotpies,

I know all to well how it is to be working in the room by yourself! At a centre I worked at I spent about 4 months working in the room on my own with 8 to 10 children a day. I wasn't happy at all and it made my work life very stressful! I hated it.. Having to do everything by yourself, including nappy changes, cleaning etc. So I know all to well what you are going through.

Now with the ratios...here is the thing. In the regs it says that 25mnths to 35mnths the ratio drops down to 1:5 instead of 1:8. However centres do not have to comply with this ratio change until 2016. I find this ridiculous. It clearly states that the ratio for toddlers needs to be changed and we have to wait another 4 years in order for centres to be forced into employing more staff so we can get some help in the room!

Still working with toddlers, the ratio is still currently 1:8 and I have 16 toddlers every day with 2 staff. It's really taken so much out of me and by the time I get home I'm completely done! I do 14 nappy changes and toileting 4 times per day and my goodness it's a lot of hard work so I know what you are going through.

You also mentioned that at times you have 9 children with you without another staff...Well 2 days per week I now have 17 in the group. I asked about having another staff and I was told no not for 1 extra child. So I guess it's the same for you too!

I can't believe what some centres expect us to do.. It's no wonder alot of Childcare professionals are leaving this industry...it's all getting rather overwhelming!!

What your centre is doing isn't right but you are not the only one facing this issue...

Cheers ,
L.A

[fchaudari76]

That is ridiculus, no way would I be happy looking after 9 kids on my own...its just too stressful...I would def be talking to your Director about it.
My toddler room is currently running at 1:6 so we have a max 12 kids at the moment which can be hectic so 16 would be insane!
I agree with LA, even with 12 we feel all we are doing some days is toilet training and nappy changes.
Centres want to just fill classes up and I think they do not think about us or even the effect it has on the children, as I feel some children just get lost in the crowd and it gets too much for them too.

[Rosie123]

I cant believe that you have 8 to 9 children on your own!! I am casually employed at a centre in WA and our ratio in the 2 - 3s room is 1: 5. That is the regulations.

Your poor thing, I have enough trouble with 2 of us and 9 children (specially some of the boys)

Rosie123

[LindyT]

Makes Family daycare look like a great option.

[Lorina]

Hi Hotpies,

Just wanted to check in with you and ask how are things going at your centre now? Have you got someone else working in the room with you? Have you taken this issue further?

Hope you're doing well,

Cheers ,
L.A

[JacksonBrowne]

Hi all, could someone (anyone!) please confirm for me if a cert III and a trainee can be left alone in a centre (no manager, no diploma on the premises) with 17 children, 3 of those x2-3year olds! The Cert III is not an authorised or nominated supervisor. Id love to hear what you think.

[Countrychildcare]

The ratios are so confusing. I am in Victoria. 0-3 year olds are 1:4 ratio. 3-5 year olds are 1:15, which means in kinder room you are usually working with no assistant. I am looking forward to the change to 1:12 for 3-5 year olds, I think it comes in next year.

[JacksonBrowne]

Ps I forgot to mention the cert III is a casual employee 2 days per week. My guess is that it is not only under ratio but unethical.

[balae002]

You are not alone.

I also worked at a centre that expected me to look after 15 children 3-5 by myself with at least 5 additional needs and severe behaviour issues. I felt I could no longer provide duty of care for the other children who were being bitten, punched and things thrown at. The stress got too much for me and I'm now looking for a new employer. One who does care.

Don't ever give up and keep speaking out for your rights and the rights of the children. You are the professional and don't need the stress. The stress that you experience is also transmitted to the children and this affects their brain development. I think we all need to speak up and advocate for children and ourselves as professionals.

Keep up the good work. Remember you are doing it for the children.

[kristyl74]

what frustrates me is the fact that how is one person meant to give "quality of care" 100% at all times when they are doing it alone.. Ratio or not it is just so disappointing the people that make these regs have probably never worked in a room, if they did they are superwoman/men!!!

Educators do not get the recognition they deserve... I have parents say "you guys are saints" I have other parents that say "ooooh im going to get my hair done can I book an extra day" - the whole "babysitting mentality"...

I will stop here before I get to riled lol..

I APPRECIATE EVERY EDUCATOR - YOU/WE DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE

[patty]

wow! Im in WA and our ratios are:
0-2 1:4,
2-3 1:5
and 3-5 1:10
I cannot imagine being alone with 8 or 9 2-3 year olds! I work in the 2-3 room and 8 or 9 with 2 of us sometimes feels like too much!!

[Angellhart]

was pretty certain the ratio changes were to come into effect in 2012? Well it did in the ACT anyway. The only thing it changed for us anyway was the babies room went from 1:5 to 1:4. Ou centre has 6 rooms - 2 babies, 2 toddlers and 2 preschool. The toddlers ratio is 1:5 and preschool 1:11. There are usually about 15 children per room per day. 4 staff in each babies room, 3 in each toddlers and 2 in each preschool. It was hard enough being in the preschool room with 16 children and 2 staff members let alone being in ANY room alone. How is that even legal? How do you even do toileting and nappy change and are still able to supervise the room? I don't understand how that can work! And what if there was an emergency? A fire.... anything? How can one person settle and safely remove all those children from danger?? Next time I feel overwhelemed if we are understaffed I will be thinking about you! (on the odd occassion we may run on 2 staff in my toddlers room or have no break cover)

[justme]

Hi all, could someone (anyone!) please confirm for me if a cert III and a trainee can be left alone in a centre (no manager, no diploma on the premises) with 17 children, 3 of those x2-3year olds! The Cert III is not an authorised or nominated supervisor. Id love to hear what you think.

The centre needs to appoint a responsbile person who holds a certified certificate to be at the permises at all times. A number of staff can hold a certified certificate to cover different shifts.

The Nominated supervisor/Director needs to hold a certified certificate and apply for a supervisor certificate.

Other staff can apply for certified certificates and thus can be appointed certified supervisors when the director is not on the permises. To apply for a certified certificate you need to meet the conditions set by ACECQA. Basically the Cert 3 would need 3 years experience in Early Chiildhood and be determined a fit and proper person.

If the Cert 3 has applied for a certified supervisor certificate they can act as a repsonsbile person when the Director is not available.

As far as ratios's go: (it would depend on the state) in NSW it is 1:8 for 2-3 yr olds, 1 educator to 8 2-3 children, so if you have 3 2-3's plus 5 older children 1 educator can look after those 8 children. Then as long as the 9 other children are older then 3 yrs that is fine.

So as long as the Cert 3 (doesn't matter if they are casual or not) has met the conditions and applied for the certified supervisor certificate they can be the responsbile person.

[Miss_Annette]

Hi there,
quick question what is the ratio for a 3-4 year room? In QLD.

at my old centre it was 1:8 but where im at now its 1:12 but no more than 19 children in the room?

[Miss Kerry]

Hi there,
quick question what is the ratio for a 3-4 year room? In QLD.

at my old centre it was 1:8 but where im at now its 1:12 but no more than 19 children in the room?

The current ratios for 3-5 year olds is 1 to 12. However the space the room provides also has a bearing on the maximum occupancy.

[dulciean]

good golly! when reading through this thread,is it any wonder we are confused re these regulations and ratios?!
forgive my ignorance but isn't the NQF a NATIONAL initiative- ie Across All Australia? what's going on with the variance between states? is it because the industry is in a state of flux/transition until 2014-2016? what a nightmare. I especially find it mind boggling regarding the physical space of the centre have a bearing on ratios ...I have heard many creative interpretations of this at some hectic/badly managed centres i had the misfortune of working at.
sometimes i think the NQF is too hard for the average boffin directing/owning a service to understand, and they just interpret it to suit themselves. I am exasperated!

[Lorina]

forgive my ignorance but isn't the NQF a NATIONAL initiative- ie Across All Australia? what's going on with the variance between states? is it because the industry is in a state of flux/transition until 2014-2016?

The whole issue on ratios is out of hand! Some centres have already implemented the ratio changes while others are waiting until the deadline... It's pretty sad actually! Why the hell put in ratio changes if centres don't have to comply with it for the next 5 years! It's the staff and the children that are suffering in the end.... I really believe that this industry is slowly starting to decline...